Brian Jewell (00:01.418)
All right, everybody. My guest today is a clinical psychologist who is on a mission to throat punch the Gen Z mental health crisis. She has spent decades working with parents, students and coaches to raise adaptable youth and build resilient communities. She's a frequent keynote speaker and media personality and the author of the number two parenting book, Practical Tips for the Pooped Out Parents. Andrea Mata, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Andrea Mata (00:29.436)
Hello, hello. Thanks so much for having me, Brian.

Brian Jewell (00:31.808)
I am so excited to have you here. I'm going to resist the urge all day to call you Dr. Dre as you are known among the community of folks we hang out with. But it's such a pleasure to have you here. You and I met, I don't know, was it five years ago? Going on six years ago now at an event?

Dr. Andrea Mata (00:46.828)
was, yeah, we were like five and a half years, because we met in November of 2020.

Brian Jewell (00:51.406)
Yeah, man, that's amazing. That feels like another lifetime ago. Totally different time in the world. You have been working with Gen Z for a long time, before they were adults, before they were the newest thing in the workplace. I'm curious, when you realized that Gen Z has a lot of unique characteristics and maybe some challenges that aren't like the rest of us.

Dr. Andrea Mata (01:13.294)
So I was a college professor for nine years, so from 2012 to 2021. And towards the end of my tenure as a professor, I started to notice a shift from these younger millennials, because I'm an elder millennial or whatever. Someone said geriatric millennial. I was like, hey.

Brian Jewell (01:35.212)
I reject that.

Dr. Andrea Mata (01:38.57)
I that, I am not geriatric. I'll take an elder millennial. But I started to notice this shift because it was my, in my last, I wanna say last year as being a college professor, I got my very first like formal complaint filed against me as a professor because a student, I like set the expectations.

Brian Jewell (01:42.583)
Yeah.

Dr. Andrea Mata (02:04.466)
And I was like, okay, this is like, you're taking this youth sports psychology course. The expectation is that you are going to contribute to the discussion every single day. That was like the one expectation for like attendance, that every single day that we have class, like you're going to contribute in some way. It doesn't have to be a lengthy contribution. It just has to be like one sentence about the reading to show me that like you put in the work.

and this student filed a formal complaint because she was doing it via Zoom, because it was right after COVID or during COVID, whatever it was. And she filed the complaint because I was docking her points because she was going the whole class period, every single class period, without saying anything. And so her mom was involved in the formal complaint process. She was involved.

They got the dean of my college involved. And it was funny because when we sat down, they're like, well, this is this. And I was like, well, do you? And I looked at the mom and I'm like, well, do you realize that your daughter is known amongst all of the senior psych majors as the one psych major that will not do what any of us are telling her to do or anything that we're expecting of her to do? And she's like, no. And I'm like, well.

Like maybe you should check the facts before you come at the college professors who are like beloved by everyone else and has never had a formal complaint in nine years. So I think that's when I started to notice the shift, whereas like there was a lot more hand holding, there was a lot more moms and dads, mostly moms, involved in kind of advocating for their students, their kids, that were college students who were adults. And so that's when I started noticing the shift.

Brian Jewell (03:36.954)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Jewell (03:59.202)
And was that emblematic of something that is a much bigger movement in that generation? did you at the time, did you kind of think, well, I just had one sort of strange family come across my classroom?

Dr. Andrea Mata (04:10.03)
I started to notice it a little bit more and then as I started to get more into kind of okay corporations and workplaces and those kind of things and as as G gen Z started going to the workplace I started noticing more and more trends and I started noticing like okay 10 % of managers of Gen Z have said that a parent of one of their employees have called them like the parents of their employees have called them

after a manager gave the adult employee some kind of feedback. And so it's just starting to see more and more of these trends. And then as I went into being a clinician, now I'm working with Gen Zs and as they're going into the workplace, I remember one of my clients was like, well, my manager gave me feedback on my report, like they said, I needed to change this one thing. And I was like, okay, so what did you do about it? And she's like,

I took a mental health day the next day.

Brian Jewell (05:08.964)
Ha

Dr. Andrea Mata (05:09.836)
And that's not like, it's not like a unique situation. Like 38 % of managers of Gen Z have said, at least one of their employees have taken a mental health day the day after they get feedback.

Brian Jewell (05:24.086)
Yeah, and you know, it's easy to sit here for me and laugh at that because that that's very different than than how we grew up and came into the workplace. If it's that common, it's probably not fair to just pin that all on the kids, right? mean, some something or some combination of things have, you know, acclimated them to to behaving this way. So take us back, you know, I guess Gen Z was born when like mid ought something like that.

Dr. Andrea Mata (05:50.158)
late 1997, I think is their year that they're born, so like late 1990s. So they're around like late 20s right now to like 13, 14 years old.

Brian Jewell (05:56.847)
Gotcha.

Brian Jewell (06:03.364)
Gotcha. So what has happened between the late nineties and now that has made this a particular weakness or a, you know, given them the sensitivity or just made them more, I don't know, susceptible to some of these mental health challenges.

Dr. Andrea Mata (06:19.48)
So I will, there's two things and I blame and both have to do with the environments that they've been raised in. So the first one is, and I will, this will be the hill that I die on, is gentle parenting. So for the last 15, 20 years, parents have taken, adopted a much more gentle approach to parenting because Xers and, or Gen Xers.

Brian Jewell (06:32.964)
Mm.

Dr. Andrea Mata (06:44.736)
And millennials, like they were parented using more militant parenting styles where it was like, I'll give you something to cry about, like feelings don't matter, rub some dirt on it, that kind of thing. And so Gen Xers and millennials felt unheard, they felt unseen, they didn't feel understood. And so they did the whole thing where it's like, I'm never doing that. I'm never parenting that way. And so what happened was they swung the complete opposite direction.

Brian Jewell (07:06.938)
Hmm.

Dr. Andrea Mata (07:13.142)
and they went into like gentle parenting or I was listening to the Cal, I was watching the Kelly Clarkson show yesterday because pink was on and I love pink and they had a doctor on who like came up with conscious parenting. So it's kind of the same thing. Whereas like, okay, we're going to focus in on our child's feelings. We're going to validate their feelings above everything else. We're not going to set like high expectations. We're not going to, you know, kind of challenge their irrational thoughts. And then we're going to treat them as if they're our

partners, they're on the same equal playing field as us, and then we're gonna get rid of rewards and punishments. Like just get rid of all of that behavioralism nonsense, like just get rid of it. And so what has happened is then when you go into the workforce, when they go into the workforce, these employees are only doing things when they feel like doing them because they focused on feelings. They're gonna take mental health days.

Brian Jewell (07:47.194)
Hmm.

Brian Jewell (07:52.057)
Yeah.

Dr. Andrea Mata (08:07.5)
They think they should be recruited or promoted within days of being hired. And then the other thing is like they want constant praise, but they don't want, they can't handle feedback. And so like that's all coming from the gentle parenting movement. And then from gentle parenting and those kinds of homes that they were raised in, then they went into schools that are focusing more on like trauma informed practices, where it's like, again, we're gonna focus in on their feelings.

Brian Jewell (08:20.676)
Hmm.

Dr. Andrea Mata (08:37.42)
and we're gonna promote these practices where if a child is overwhelmed or they're frustrated or they're stressed or they're angry, we're gonna give them breaks for however long they want and we're not gonna hold them to standards and we're gonna cause more and more problems. And so again, focusing more on feelings, not keeping the expectations high, and then again, we're seeing the same things in the workplace where it's just causing.

and I don't even know if workplace, mean, think workplaces are noticing it, but I don't think they understand why it's happening.

Brian Jewell (09:12.354)
Yeah. So this is really interesting to me because part of me expected you to say, well, you know, from the late nineties, we've had nine 11 war in Iraq, financial crisis, COVID and all these external factors that, you know, we're really just a perfect storm for these young people. But you're saying this is all how we've treated them since childhood. So how much do you think global events and real crises have, you know, I don't know, contributed

to Gen Z's challenges.

Dr. Andrea Mata (09:44.11)
I think the only one that I would definitely say has had an impact is COVID because we're talking about they were, what were they? Where they were in like high school and then all of a sudden we're like, hey, we're gonna from like high school and like little school, know, elementary school, junior high kind of thing. We're going to completely isolate you for 18 months. And like, we are social beings. We are meant to be.

Brian Jewell (10:08.216)
Right.

Dr. Andrea Mata (10:13.31)
social, we are meant to be face to face, we are not meant to have like these screens in front of our faces all of the time. And so their social skills have declined, they're knowing like what the expectations are. So a lot of teachers have said like, essentially, there's a two year gap now or delay in students behavior. like seniors in high school are acting like previous sophomores in high school.

And like eighth graders are acting like sixth graders in regards to like maturity and emotional intelligence and like just social skills because of what COVID and we decided to do lockdowns for 18 months to two years.

Brian Jewell (10:54.574)
Yeah. So are you seeing that two year lag kind of follow them into the workplace? you know, they get they get out of school, they get their first job, and it really takes them a couple years to sort of hit that basic level that we would have expected from a millennial at age 22.

Dr. Andrea Mata (11:09.218)
Yeah, so like when I was in grad school, I would study what's called emerging adulthood. So it's like 18 to 25 years of age and we were just like studying it. was a new developmental stage and we were like, okay, this is, this is new and it's essentially just an extension of adolescence. And so this is the time where they're trying to figure out who they are, what they believe, who, who they want to love, what their worldviews are. But now we're starting to see

that emerging adulthood kind of extended even further out. Like those adult responsibilities where they're getting, they're independent of their parents financially, they have their own places, they have their own cars, they're paying for their own insurance, they have their own jobs, those kind of things, or they're getting married, they're having kids, we're starting to see that extend out even further than that 25 year age that we were seeing before.

Brian Jewell (12:06.51)
Yeah. So what is a business leader to make of all this? know, lot of people in tourism, where our listeners are, are constantly hiring frontline, you know, people in their first jobs just out of school. How do you lead these people who may be coming in with a totally different generational mindset than the supervisors who are responsible for leading them?

Dr. Andrea Mata (12:33.176)
So the biggest tip that I have for managers, leaders who are employing Gen Z employees is you want to set high expectations, but then you wanna pair that with high support. And so you want to be very, very clear and communicate what those expectations are, and you want to label them as like behavioral expectations.

So what you and I, Brian, would probably refer to as like smart goals, right? You want to have smart goals laid out for them and you want to be communicating with them on a regular basis. I usually say like get rid of one year evaluations, just like get rid of those and move towards like 12 week evaluations where you're sitting down with them for a 12 week period of time and be like, okay, what is your focus for the next 12 weeks?

These are the skills that we need you to develop in the next six weeks. These are the 12 weeks. These are the expectations we want you to have in the next 12 weeks and really sit down with them at the beginning and then maybe a middle point to say like, okay, how are you doing on this? What adaptations do we make, what adjustments do we need to make? And then at the end of the 12 weeks, okay, how did you do? And then you're also like that support piece is coming in is like, okay.

What skills do they not have that they need to develop in order to meet these expectations? So do they need professional development? Do they need training on how to communicate effectively? Do they need relationship building skills? Do they need like just conversations on from like older, you know, employees and like how to dress and how to behave and like what are the values? And so really having

Brian Jewell (14:05.882)
Yeah.

Dr. Andrea Mata (14:27.096)
communication. And then the other thing that comes with that support piece is purpose. They are very big into purpose and they don't want to just be a cog in the, another cog in the wheel. They want to know what, what they are doing serves somebody. It helps somebody. They want to see the bigger impact.

Brian Jewell (14:48.632)
Hmm. So some of the bosses that people like you and I had, you know, at our teenage jobs, our first jobs might've said, your purpose is to do what I say and get a paycheck. You're saying that's not enough today.

Dr. Andrea Mata (14:57.816)
Mm-hmm.

No, like because like I remember having a conversation with my husband Jim during COVID, right? And he was working at a position where he was like supervising 90 people. And one of the things that I instructed him to do or gave him the tip to do, I was like, hey, because they would make parts, like his people would be making parts for like rocket ships and spaceships. And I was like, that's freaking cool.

I'm like, so what I want you to do is I want you to print out like a picture of the rocket ship and put a square for like whatever position that person, whatever part of the rocket ship that person is working on. I want you to put a square on the rocket ship in space and paste it by like put it up by their station so that they know that this is the part of the rocket ship that they are going in space.

And then maybe when they're doing launches of the rocket ships or whatever, like our spaceships, whatever it is, you have it so that there's an event, right? And everyone is cheering and everyone's like, my God, like we did that together. And so building that community, because that's what they all want. Like they want that community, they want that purpose. And so it's kind of cultivating that culture in your workplace.

Brian Jewell (16:10.104)
Yeah, yeah.

Brian Jewell (16:23.994)
So that's interesting. And actually I'm having a siren go by right now, so I might take a minute. Sorry. We're like, we're just off one of the main streets in downtown Lexington and there's like three hospitals on this route and a couple of funeral homes. So I never know if it's a funeral procession or a fire truck or what. But this happened, I mean, like easily 20 % of my interviews I'm stopping for a siren.

Dr. Andrea Mata (16:30.958)
You're okay.

Dr. Andrea Mata (16:51.02)
That's lit, well that's why you said it earlier, like, cause it's funny, cause I share the building that I'm in is with a salon. So like right before we got started, I heard someone out in the hallway, cause I have a window right behind me. And like, I heard like a very loud man talking and I was like, shh, stop talking.

Brian Jewell (17:08.876)
Okay, I think we're past.

Okay, so that's interesting because when I think of mission and organizational missions, you know, it's easy to think of nonprofits, you know, who have a very clear like, you know, world improving mission they're trying to do, you know, you think of ministries, churches, NGOs, something like that. But you're saying that in a for-profit organization, there's probably already something really meaningful about the mission and we may just have to be creative enough to identify it and communicate it.

Dr. Andrea Mata (17:39.884)
Yeah, because like a lot, I mean, all companies have values, right? Like, or they should at least. Like every company should have a value. So it's like, what are your values and how are you communicating those values to your younger or all of your employees so that there's buy in? Because like, that's the thing, like this is the generation that like, if they're not bought in, if they don't see the purpose or the mission of what they are doing,

Brian Jewell (17:44.966)
Right.

Dr. Andrea Mata (18:09.58)
they're gonna just say bye bye and go look for something else. Because many of them think that they could make more money as a YouTuber or an influencer than for the job that you're currently employing them for.

Brian Jewell (18:20.772)
Yeah. So now that brings up another interesting concept here. You you mentioned all your employees, not just Gen Z. Some people are leading organizations that have maybe some boomers who are still working because they just enjoy it or, you know, they're not financially ready to retire. They've got some Gen Xers who are probably in senior leadership at this point. They've got millennials working their way up through the ranks, you know, middle management, and then, you know, Gen Z getting started in their careers. I can imagine

some leaders saying, I could do that and my Gen Z would appreciate it, but my boomers and extras would look at me like, this is stupid. You know, like, why are you wasting my time with this stupid feelings nonsense? So do you have any tips for navigating these things in a multi-generational workplace and doing it in a way that doesn't, you know, make the older people roll their eyes and walk away?

Dr. Andrea Mata (19:10.05)
I think is bringing in intergenerational experts to the workplace and having conversations of like, how are we going to, what's the buy-in factor for the millennials and the Gen Xers and the Boomers? Well, you're probably, so for the Gen Z, we know that it's purpose, and okay, so we're gonna talk with them, but then how do you get your older generations? Well, chances are you're gonna focus on things like retention.

and productivity. And it's like, okay, hey, yes, we have these Gen Z folks, and we are talking about feelings and like mental health and like the warm and the fuzzies of everything. And you're all are like, why are we talking about these things? But the reason why we're talking about these things is because we want to retain them. We want them to be productive. We want them to be satisfied because if they are those three things, then the chances of them leaving the company are less.

Brian Jewell (19:49.902)
Mm-hmm.

Ha

Dr. Andrea Mata (20:08.938)
And then it's not driving your leaders like your Gen Xers and your millennial leaders absolutely insane because you have the Gen Zs bought in and then they can actually do the work that they love doing because they're not constantly hiring new employees. Because every time a Gen Z leaves, that leaves your higher leadership up to, they're responsible for hiring another employee and it also costs the company.

because it costs, think Sherm said recently that it's like 50 % of their salary. So like if you have someone and you're paying them $50,000, like a Gen Z employee for $50,000 and they're not bought in, well, crap, like you're gonna have to spend $100,000 to replace that one employee. And what does that do for your rest of your morale? And what does that do for your leaders?

Brian Jewell (20:42.735)
Wow.

Brian Jewell (21:04.634)
Wow, you're so right. And I can attest even to the math of what you're saying. We lost a key Gen Z team member last year. He was just a rock star. And he went on to do other things. the process of identifying, recruiting, training, onboarding somebody to take his place was an enormous financial loss. 50%, maybe more. So you're absolutely onto something there.

Dr. Andrea Mata (21:15.363)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Andrea Mata (21:26.894)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brian Jewell (21:33.108)
So we've referenced mental health crisis. Tell me how you define that specifically among Gen Z. it Gen Z really is having more mental health issues than other generations have or are they just more open to identifying it and talking about it and maybe seeking treatment?

Dr. Andrea Mata (21:50.796)
I think both are probably true. I know like statistics talk about that I think on average 46 to 50 % of Gen Z adults meet criteria for some psychological disorder. Because there's a great book, it's called The Anxious Generation by Dr. John Hyatt, where he talks about like all of these environments that we've raised our youth in have made them anxious.

and under-equipped for the workplace and just life in general. So I think there has been an increase in anxiety and depression, but then at the same time, they're also much more willing to talk about it compared to other generations. But just because they're willing to talk about it doesn't mean that they understand it. Because I think lots of people are talking about it, but not a lot of people still don't understand what a psychological disorder is and what impact does it have and what impact does it not.

Brian Jewell (22:21.763)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Jewell (22:48.29)
Yeah. So for that business leader, especially let's say on a small team where you really need everybody to be there basically every day and be productive. If that Gen Z employee comes to them and starts saying, hey, I'm feeling some anxiety, I may need some mental health treatment, some companies cover mental health treatment, what can you do for me? How can a leader sort of suss out? Is this somebody who really does need

to take that break and get that treatment and need all the support I can give them? Or do they just kind of need me to reinforce that expectation and send them back to work?

Dr. Andrea Mata (23:25.198)
I think the big thing is high support, high expectations. So you wanna maintain it, these are the expectations. You don't wanna lower the expectations, but then at the same time, what kind of supports does that employee, that specific employee need to be able to obtain those expectations or to reach those expectations? And so does it look like you are outsourcing and you have a good partnership, like your company has a good...

a working relationship with local mental health providers? Do you have an employee assistant program or an EAP that's going to pay X number of sessions for each of their employees if they want to do it, where it's not gone against their insurance or their deductible or something like that? But I think it's, or what other coaching? That's the other thing that I don't think people realize.

Brian Jewell (24:12.462)
Yeah.

Dr. Andrea Mata (24:18.752)
is like is there a mental health coach that you can bring in to do a workshop on how do we deal with anxiety? How do we deal with depression? What are the fundamentals of mental health? How do we just stay mentally well? And then you're hitting all of your employees and you're not having to invest all of these little things. So trying to go upstream and be preventative.

So you're preventing these mental health crises from happening in your employees, I think is the most bang for your buck.

Brian Jewell (24:55.342)
Yeah, that's so smart. Now, you've mentioned parents and the role that parents are continuing to play in Gen Z's lives, even after they get into their professional role. Do you feel like when Gen Z gets into the workplace that they are looking at their employers, managers, leaders to in some ways fill a kind of parental void? And if they are looking for that, is that something that managers should do or do managers need to say, no, no, I'm not your mom, I'm not your dad?

you know, let's, let's keep it professional.

Dr. Andrea Mata (25:28.078)
Well, I think there's a kind of a relationship that you form and you want, and I think that's another big thing when it comes to different generations, because you have some generations that are very much like, let's be relational. You have some generations that are like strong work life separation.

And then you have probably the gen Z's that everything is just like meshed together and there's no separation whatsoever. And so I think part of that, like that intergenerational work that companies need to be doing is having conversations about, okay, which employees, where do they stand in regards to like life work balance boundaries? And so like, how much are we sharing? How much are we not sharing about our lives?

What kind of relationships are we having, like professional relationships? What does that look like? What does a professional relationship look like for your specific company? And having those conversations so that everyone is on the same page. It's no different than like companies do coming in and doing like disc assessments or strengths finders or anything like that, where it's like, how do different people communicate? It's now like, how are different people employees?

how do they approach relationships and how are we going to make that work for our team?

Brian Jewell (26:46.67)
Yeah. So if I've got a, 55 year old employee who kind of keeps to themselves and just wants to be cordial around the office, but not personal. And then I've got a 25 year old who wants to be very personal. It's okay to have those two different relationships with the two different people.

Dr. Andrea Mata (27:03.916)
Yes. Like if you're a leader, it's okay to be like, okay, I know that Sam, the 55 year old doesn't, is just going to be like, hey, what expectations do you need of me? Okay, let me do that. Let me punch in. Let me do what I need to do and then get out of here so that I can go live my life. And then the, you know, the 25 year old, you know, Chad is kind of being like, hey, like let's, let's do this. Like, don't you want to go out to happy hour? La la la. And like, it's okay to have different relationships with different people. I think it's just.

having those conversations and communicating that that's okay.

Brian Jewell (27:37.144)
Yeah, that's so fascinating. We've been rather hard on Gen Z, or maybe I have, at least in our time today. What can you tell us about some of the real strengths they bring to the workplace and maybe how leaders can set the table for them to stand on those strengths and really shine?

Dr. Andrea Mata (27:54.764)
I think one of their strengths, purpose is one, but then the other thing is that they are disruptors, right? Like they are going to, like that whole mentality of like, this is how it's always been done, so this is how we're always going to do it. I think Gen Zers will be the ones that come in and they're like, but why? Like, why does it have to be this way?

Brian Jewell (28:05.146)
Hmm.

Dr. Andrea Mata (28:22.35)
Can we do it a different way? And it might, like some of like probably the like millennials and maybe the younger Gen Xers will be like, like secretively. And then you might have the boomers being like, this is how we've always done it. And like, you'll have like different things that you have to maneuver. But I think that's their biggest strength is that they're going to ask those questions of like, why? And if you're willing to bring them into the conversation,

Brian Jewell (28:30.308)
Yeah.

Dr. Andrea Mata (28:50.176)
your company is going to be innovative. I know that's a key buzzword right now, like innovative, but you're not going to go the way of Kodak, where they weren't innovating or Polaroid, where they weren't innovating because this is how we've always done it. But I think if you really kind of figure out how to incorporate your Gen Z employees into your company, into those conversations and allow them to be that disruptors,

I think your company is going to do well.

Brian Jewell (29:22.286)
Yeah, I love that. along those same lines, you mentioned as in Gen Z often wants to come in and expects to take charge rather soon. How much should leaders give them a lot of rope? Or how much leaders be kind of pulling back on a leash and saying, no, you're not ready yet. You're you know, you got to pay your dues. We got to put you through your paces before we can give you real responsibility.

Dr. Andrea Mata (29:46.006)
I think that is a great, like it's a kind of a, you have to kind of figure it out. It's a teeter-totter, right? Where it's like, okay, I'm gonna give you these expectations here, do these expectations well, and then we can give you some, can loosen the reins. So I think for the first part of them being in your company, you're going to be very, very hands-on with them. And then as you kind of see what skills do they need, how do I need to develop them? How do I need to mold them?

and then as they show you that they can do it, that's when you start loosening the reins and give them a lot more freedom and invite them in. And I think you can also do that whole disrupting thing from the get-go. You just have to let them know, okay, in this meeting, you are allowed to disrupt all that you want in this meeting. In this context, you can do it. But in this other context,

We just need you to do what we need you to do because that's what the company needs, okay?

Brian Jewell (30:47.873)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, I could keep you here all day asking you these questions. I know you've got other things to do. Before we say goodbye, what is the best way for people to find you, follow you, get more of Dr. Dre?

Dr. Andrea Mata (31:02.446)
So I have an email, so it's Andreadmata.com or you can go to Brightspotfamilies.com, but probably the first one for like speaking kind of thing. And then I am active on LinkedIn.

Brian Jewell (31:15.63)
Yeah, absolutely great follow on LinkedIn. will put links to all those things in the show notes. Now before we let you go, we have some questions we ask everybody. They're just for fun. off the top of your head, when you travel, do you book window seats or aisle seats?

Dr. Andrea Mata (31:30.322)
I'm 5'9". I do not, and I'm claustrophobic. So the whole thing where I'm squished against the wall and the person next to me, also that middle person is like, So I will go aisle if I'm traveling by myself. If I'm traveling with my husband, I have to sit middle because he's 6'6".

Brian Jewell (31:50.33)
Yeah, you lose that battle to just the DNA of the situation, right? Like, yeah, he's a tall guy. So what is something in your carry on that you wouldn't travel without?

Dr. Andrea Mata (31:56.878)
Exactly. Kiss.

Dr. Andrea Mata (32:05.774)
Oh, what is something? I mean phone, but that seems like a chapstick probably. Like chapstick because like wherever you go, your lips just get dry.

Brian Jewell (32:11.322)
Chapstick, that is.

Brian Jewell (32:17.818)
Yeah, you're right. It happens to me routinely when I travel and then when I'm at home, I rarely ever need it. But it seems like every trip I'm digging into my bag somewhere like where where is my chapstick for sure.

Dr. Andrea Mata (32:29.442)
and then you have like 40 chapsticks and you're like, here's all my chapsticks. Why don't I have the one in my carry on?

Brian Jewell (32:33.946)
I know right? Well, here's here's the really embarrassing thing. I think I have one of my carry on that I probably put there in like 2006. Yeah, if you if you're only listening to the show, you should see the face. Dr. Drake made it was like this mix of disgust and concern like Brian, I'm afraid he may get sick.

Dr. Andrea Mata (32:44.16)
You should probably toss that one.

Dr. Andrea Mata (32:57.902)
Like all the germs and like that have just like incubated on that chapstick like

Brian Jewell (33:03.898)
Yeah, good note. I'll do that. I'll do that as soon as we hang up. All right. So if you had a free airline pass and a week with nothing else to do, where would you be headed next?

Dr. Andrea Mata (33:08.312)
Okay.

Dr. Andrea Mata (33:15.054)
Australia, that is an easy question. I have not, we are actually planning on going there for the Olympics in 2032 as a family. So that is that we have already started, kind of really started planning. Like we're like, okay, we're gonna go for two weeks. The kids are all gonna be with us. We probably need to find a travel agent for that because that's just a big endeavor that I don't think either of us want to do.

Brian Jewell (33:17.87)
Yeah. Have you been there?

Brian Jewell (33:24.622)
Nice.

Brian Jewell (33:38.478)
Yeah, but it'll be the trip of a lifetime. I mean, that's that's gonna be incredible. Yeah. So the last question is, what is one thing you have seen or done on the road that you wish you could go back and experience again with somebody you love?

Dr. Andrea Mata (33:49.806)
So for our honeymoon, my husband and I went to the big island of Hawaii and there so we learned very quickly in like the travel guidebooks like if the travel for us This is not true for everybody if it said like it has to do it like you must do Don't do it because there's so many tourists there, but if it was like, this is kind of like great Like go do that because it was awesome

Brian Jewell (33:54.734)
Nice.

Brian Jewell (34:12.183)
Mmm.

Dr. Andrea Mata (34:18.38)
like the chili cheese fries, wanna say was like Susie Lou's or something on the Big Island. They are by far the best chili cheese fries I have ever tasted in my life. So I'd go back to the Big Island just for those cheese fries.

Brian Jewell (34:29.231)
Wow.

Yeah, well, you're making a pretty compelling case. I may have to book that trip and bring my yeah, get you get Jim, I'll get Lara will plan that trip and we'll all bring our elastic waistband pants to accommodate those chili cheese fries. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Well, this has been wonderful. Andrea, thanks for joining us.

Dr. Andrea Mata (34:34.508)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Andrea Mata (34:38.424)
Can I come with you?

Dr. Andrea Mata (34:43.342)
For all the chili cheese fries.

Dr. Andrea Mata (34:53.838)
Thank you for having me.