Brian Jewell (00:06.062)
Well, hey there, everybody. Welcome to Gather and Go, the podcast that helps you plan, promote, and lead better trips. I'm Brian Jewell, I am your host. I'm excited to be bringing you a bonus episode today with some really cool and encouraging data that I think you are going to love. Now, our friends at the American Bus Association just released.

Their second annual version of an economic impact report that really helps spell out all the ways that the tourism industry and the motor coach industry contribute to the economy in cities and towns all over the United States. This data is so exciting. We're going to get into it today in a special interview with Fred Ferguson and Lou Myers of ABA.

Now, there's a lot of information in here that you're going to find encouraging. You're going to hear about how our industry is growing. You're also going to hear about some of the challenges facing the motor coach industry. They're not only the ones you may be thinking of. And you're going to learn how the data that ABA is making available free to all of us could help people like you and me make things better for our industry, not only in

Overcoming the challenges we have now, but really setting ourselves up for success long term. I am super excited about this data and this content. So without any further ado, let's get into my conversation with Fred Ferguson and Lou Myers.

Brian Jewell (01:57.834)
All right, everybody. My guests today are the leaders of the American Bus Association and the ABA Foundation. Fred Ferguson is ABA's president and CEO with extensive experience in policy and organizational leadership. Lou Myers is a friend of the show who serves as the association's director of government relations and research and spent 12 years working in Congress before joining ABA. Fred and Lou, welcome to the podcast.

Lew Meyers (02:25.816)
Thank you, Brian.

Fred Ferguson (02:26.914)
Yeah, thanks for having us. I I gotta, I gotta tell you, Lou has me on a number of years, but I was up on Capitol Hill for about eight and a half years. Yeah. And so one of the areas where we overlapped was the game of golf. Uh-oh. Lou, Lou had led the Congressional Golf Foundation. And it was a way to honestly to bridge the partisan divide where he got Republicans and Democrats out on the golf course to get to know one each other better. And it's been a great.

You know, golf is an amazing game that connects a lot of people. And so much of what Lou is now doing at ABA is that same thing. He's just connecting bus operators, the travel community, the media, you know, with guys like you, Brian. And 'cause that's what it's all about connection and getting to know people. Yeah.

Brian Jewell (03:12.674)
Yeah, I love that. Lou, any plans for a golf tournament in Calgary in February?

Lew Meyers (03:18.242)
Well, we might do some indoor golf. It's gonna be fairly cold I would imagine, but you never know what might happen, so

Fred Ferguson (03:23.66)
Yeah. He's always got an answer. Indoor golf. He's probably already mapped out all the places too. I love it.

Brian Jewell (03:30.082)
I love it. So Lou, you have been on the show. Welcome back. Fred, it's great to have you. You're a a couple years, is it two years into your leadership at ABA so far? Is that right?

Fred Ferguson (03:39.468)
Yeah, two years and a couple months. Yeah. So it's still feels like the first week. I mean, the way we're going about things, it's there's a lot to do. There's a lot of opportunity and I think I'm still feeling as energized now as I was then.

Brian Jewell (03:54.67)
Yeah, excellent. Well, it's it's great to have you both. And I'm so excited about the data we're unpacking today. from this is your second iteration of the economic impact study on the motor coach tour market. Lou, tell us about what got this going. What was the goal of the study and give us a little bit of the methodology about how you put it together?

Lew Meyers (04:21.678)
Yeah, well, the primary goal was to quantify the economic importance of the motor coach industry and to really demonstrate that its impact extends just far beyond just the bus operator itself. we wanted to answer a pretty straightforward question you know, what does motor coach activity contribute to the broader US economy? and that means looking beyond just the revenue generated by motor coach companies and really capturing the economic activity.

generated throughout the supply chain and by the spending of the workers whose jobs are supported by the industry. And that's really the methodology and the best principle that we use behind what we call our input output ep economic modeling.

Brian Jewell (05:07.128)
Yeah. I and you're working with research firms that specialize in this, right?

Lew Meyers (05:12.344)
That is correct. We we have an exclusive partnership with a research firm based out of Canada. And they have done and really been the backbone of all of our research projects that we've produced over the last few years.

Fred Ferguson (05:25.474)
So Brian, it's it's tourism economics. Yeah. And they they really are the gold standard in in travel-based data and research. They work with DMOs, conventions and visitors bureaus, state departments of tourism. So to have them as our partner really is that kind of gold plated validator that the data you're looking at is absolutely solid, clean, legitimate.

another thing that I'll just say, kind of zooming out even further, ABA has conducted research like this over the years. When I arrived at ABA, this was in 2024, the most recent study was in 2022. And before that, it probably was pre-COVID, was the last time they had run an economic impact report. And one of the things that Lou and I have pushed the ABA foundation to think about is data is only as good.

As the audience's willingness to use it. Yep. And for us, there's two audiences. There is Capitol Hill and Congress, who they want to understand, you know, what's in it for me and what's in it for my district. many times when you're lobbying, you're asking Congress to do something, support this bill or fund this project. We now, through this data, can say, here's what we're doing for you. We are generating.

This much economic activity and hiring this many people in your district. This is a good relationship. This is a two-sided relationship. You know, let's work together to grow these numbers. And the bill we're asking for would do that. But then the second audience, it's all of those locations who would benefit from a bus full of people coming to their site. Yeah. And so those are DMOs, attractions, restaurants, broadly what we call the travel industry.

And what we found is those two audiences, if you don't have current data, they're not going to use it. Yep. Because if I'm a DMO and I'm building my marketing budget, and I believe that group travel is an important plank in our strategy, if you're not showing them the the real up to date numbers, you're not going to have a good pitch. Same with Capitol Hill. great. You had this many jobs in 2019. What does that mean for today?

Fred Ferguson (07:48.47)
So we really pushed hard to fund this study every single year. And so the data we're talking about today, this is it's really a huge feather in our cap because it's the first time that we have data published in back-to-back years. Yeah. So we had a baseline last year. We've built on that baseline this year. So that is a huge achievement. And I believe our audiences, Capitol Hill and the travel industry.

They're gonna start to really see the fruit now because you're seeing where are we growing? Where are we not growing? Yeah. Where do we need to put more dollars in? How do we use the data? And that's where we currently are in this journey. Yeah.

Brian Jewell (08:28.34)
I love that. And to that point, you know, Lou, you and I talked about this data last year on the show. And I believe last year the the economic impact figure you were citing was about ninety billion dollars. This year you've got it at over ninety two, ninety two point six. So do you have any ideas what accounts for that growth?

Lew Meyers (08:47.47)
I mean, honestly, it comes down to one simple thing and that is more buses on the road. to Fred's point, each year the foundation produces what we call the census the bus census, which really provides a snapshot of the size and activity of the motor coach industry. that was released earlier this year and it really confirms what we're seeing across the industry is that more Americans are recognizing the value of group travel and choosing motor coaches as part of their travel experience.

and we really understand that that growth means more visitors arriving at destinations together, and more ec economic activity is starting to flow at the hotels, the restaurants, the attractions, the retailers, and the small businesses that serve these these destinations.

Brian Jewell (09:33.858)
Yeah. Give me a a a bird's eye view of what is that ecosystem of economic impact. You know, it's it's obviously those places you mentioned, but then there's knock on and follow on effects, right?

Lew Meyers (09:45.368)
absolutely. And and what we really recognize is that the bus does bring business you know, directly, but it's really the dollars that flow from all the individuals that get off the bus in that local economy. And so and and one of the things we're really focusing on with our tour and travel industry is is national parks and the gateway communities that support that support those bus trips. And so not only does it have the economic impact, we see that twenty eight billion dollars.

based on the data from this past study shows that that is flowing into the tax systems not only the federal government but the state and local governments as well. So it's really a flywheel that when buses show up, they bring business. And that's something exciting that we're extracting from the data. And we look forward to continue this momentum for the next few years.

Fred Ferguson (10:37.774)
And and Brian, let me let me share just a few kind of like because we're gonna talk about a lot of numbers. So our economic impact report covers a lot of things. So first and foremost, we look at the total basket of economic activity across the entire motor coach and group travel ecosystem. And that gives us one number. Yeah. That number is a hundred and sixty one billion dollars in economic output. Wow.

Now, what we've also done is we've realized that within the motor coach community, you have essentially two forms of service. You have scheduled service, which is kind of like an airplane, but just on wheels. Yeah. Where I'm buying a single ticket on a bus that takes me from point A to point B. And then the second type is what we call charter service, where you're you're taking a bus as a group to go different places. Maybe it's to a sports game, maybe it's

to do a field trip for a school. Maybe you're in the National Guard and you're hiring a bus to move troops from one place to another. So historically, ABA has only focused on that second segment, the charter and group segment. And what we've done is said the scheduled segment is just as important. It it's a huge part of the ecosystem. Yeah. And so we actually now study both segments.

And so one of the numbers, just to be clear, you have referenced $92 billion in economic output. That is for the group segment, which makes sense. That really is kind of the audience, you know, for your listeners. And a lot of people know ABA for Marketplace, which is the industry's largest trade show each year. And that $92 billion figure really speaks directly to to the marketplace constituencies.

Now within the numbers, I think this is what you were getting to as well. 92 billion dollars is spread across many different categories. So when you have a bus, you have food and beverage. So we're looking at $13 billion in food and beverage. You have the transportation itself, that's $8 billion, retail spending, 7.9 billion, lodging, 3.1 billion, local services, recreation, 7.5 billion. That's what Lou was talking about with national parks. Yeah.

Fred Ferguson (12:57.344)
Anytime you're on a vacation or on a trip, I feel like I do this with my own family. I look at what park is nearby, whether it's a state park or federal park. And we're seeing that $7.5 billion of the direct impact of motor coach travel goes into recreation. So those types of stories is as more and more of our audience members get to know the data, they're going to realize that if I'm a marketer in the in my own county.

I know that a bus full of people can give me $28.8 billion in day traveler spending, $12.3 billion in overnight traveler spending, and that gives us a total direct impact of $41 billion. And then as you know, Brian, when you take the the ancillary effects of that direct spending, that gets us to the $92 billion total output. So I realize that's a lot of numbers and it's very wonky, but it shows you that we're tracking.

Not just the bus itself, but what are the passengers doing once they get to their destination? And they're spending a lot of money across many, many categories.

Brian Jewell (14:02.892)
Yeah, absolutely. We love getting wonky here on the podcast. So this is the place to do it. Now, Fred mentioned the county level data. Lou, that's new this year in the study, is is being able to drill down that deeply. Why was it important to get that granular? and you know, how do you see destinations at the county level using this data?

Lew Meyers (14:23.958)
great question, Brian. know, the the biggest reason we wanted to get the county level is because, you know, that's where the economic activity actually happens and where many of the decisions affecting motor coach travel are honestly made. last year we, you know, we could show a destination or a policymaker what motor coach travel was contributing to a state or congressional district, and and that had its value.

But it didn't necessarily tell a local tourism organization what was happening in its own backyard. Now for the first time, we can show a destination what Motor Coach travel is worth in its own county, including the business activities, jobs, wages, and as Fred mentioned, the tax revenue component of it. What we've also recognized is that gives DMOs and CVBs a much clearer picture of their market. They can begin to understand not just that motor coach groups.

are coming into their region, but the economic value those visitors are generating once they arrive. and that can inform real decision. I mean, if a destination sees significant motor coach activity, it can use that data to make a case for better bus parking. curb access is something that we're also focusing on here at ABA, infrastructure and facilities, or just f flat out additional investment to attract group business. and also helps identify opportunities for growth.

A destination can look at its existing motor coach activity and ask, are we really capturing, you know, overnight stays or what groups are spending on attractions? are we getting them into the local restaurants and businesses? and so that's really the evolution of the research. a national number really tells the size of the industry, but the county level data can really tell a destination what the industry means to them.

Fred Ferguson (16:13.294)
So, Brian, I'll I'll chime in here. One thing I've learned since I joined ABA is that the travel industry is a major component of ABA's membership. And that maybe that's obvious, but even though bus is in our title, American Bus Association, much of our revenue comes from the travel industry. And that comes through attendance at Marketplace and through travel memberships. So even if you're

Don't own a bus, but you own an attraction or you know, you are in the travel ecosystem, we have a membership for you. And what I've found is the travel segment is a huge part of ABA's funding. And so historically, we have done economic research at the federal level, the state level, and the congressional district level. And that really speaks to our congressional audience. And as I've said, that our travel audience is just as important.

Probably more important because of their financial contributions to what we do. So this is our immediate response to say the travel industry matters. We need them. We need you at ABA. And we, as part of our duty, we're going to give you more value. So when you are signing up for an ABA membership, not only are you getting marketplace, you're getting guys like Lou who lobby on your behalf in DC, but now we're giving you data that actually is useful in your marketing.

And your budget planning, that is kind of the secret sauce. The other thing I'll say, I now am on the board of my local DMO. Wow, which is Visit Loudoun. And my wife has retail stores in Loudoun County. And it's become very real wearing that hat that a motor coach that comes to Middleburg, Virginia or Leesburg, Virginia, that might make our day, maybe might make the week. Yeah.

So it's personal now. And when our DMO leader, Beth Erickson, you know, said that, hey, look, why don't you guys think about county level data? Like, done. We're gonna do this for all the reasons that I talked about. So I think the sky's the limit for the way this data could be used. And one of our focuses is just spreading the word that this exists, that it's available to you. Myself, Lou, tourism economics, we will break it down.

Fred Ferguson (18:34.22)
We will come to your location to talk about it. Lou has given many presentations about the data. And one story I'll brag on Lou a little bit. There was a girl who attended one of Lou's presentations in Birmingham, Alabama. And she went through the presentation, learned a lot, ended up applying for her, you know, undergrad degree, and she went into tourism and hospitality. Wow.

And she credits Lou's presentation for going into the industry. And then the full circle moment, she just applied for a scholarship through the ABA foundation. And through a very unbiased process, Lou, I don't even think you knew she was an applicant. She was awarded a scholarship, $5,000 scholarship. And that's because her criteria, her application, it it met all the right benchmarks. And so how cool is that? You know, Lou inspired someone.

to go to college, to get into the industry. And then once she did it, she obviously put together a hell of an application where she just got five thousand dollars to advance her her undergrad. So that is a really cool story and that's what we want to do more of. Yeah.

Brian Jewell (19:45.294)
Absolutely. Workforce development is such an important thing for all of us. And it's something that takes all of us. You know, no, no one organization or or association is gonna do that on their own. as you're talking about the county level data, it really reminded me about how difficult it has been for DMOs to track group arrivals in their destination. I've I've been in group tourism for

Well over twenty years now. And for well over twenty years, I've heard the complaint, you know, we can't get our hotels to report when they've got a group. We can't get, you know, they don't want to share the data. And so you've got these DMOs genuinely in the dark about how many groups came. I mean, I've I I've heard of DMO salespeople driving around their town every morning counting the motor coaches in the hotel parking lots, because that's the only way they could even get close to the data. So it seems to me now, you know, even if there's not data being shared from hotel to

DMO and the destination, at least the DMO can have a fairly strong point of reference because they've got that county level indicator. So ideally, you know, people are looking at this data and they're saying, gosh, our county did great, you know, let's double down, let's go further. Fred, what would you say to a destination who looks at their numbers and they say, man, we're this is a lot lower than I helped, or lower than I hoped. How, how do these numbers, you know, help them kind of come to grips with that and maybe form a plan of action?

Fred Ferguson (21:02.658)
Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing you have to look at is you know, you come into ABA marketplace. If if you if if you want to have a group program and you don't go to marketplace, like you you don't really want a group program. So I think that's that that would be my first finding if I were to audit the DMO. I think the second is what kind of staffing model do you have? I think we we all know that every DMO has a conventions team, sports recruiting.

is a is a major part of the budget. of course everybody is thinking about the the food influencer, the travel influencer, which in some ways is trying to inspire one family and you know one kind of group, not group, but smaller daytime travelers, which is great. Yeah. But but the group piece, not everybody has a group sales team or they have someone that understands group travel who can

speak the language of all the things that that our group leaders know about. And so to me, it comes down to are you coming to marketplace? Are you engaging with ABA so we can teach you about how to use the data? And then are you putting, you know, players on the field who know how to go to bus companies and tour operators and the the student programs.

And if you do all three, all of a sudden you can start to grow your numbers. Yeah.

Brian Jewell (22:32.044)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I would add one more comment, like also maybe look at your marketing budget, you know, because that marketing is is an important piece as well.

Fred Ferguson (22:42.008)
Well, and that's what we hope to show is that with when you can now see at the county level the direct spending, you know, we haven't even talked about this. Taxes. You know, so many of DMOs are quasi governmental. You know, they're benefiting from you know, the local tax base, the heads and beds tax. Our report gives you a breakdown of taxes paid at the federal, state, and local level.

So we can now start to show you that when you have this much ac economic activity happening in your location, what does that mean for your local tax base? So all of a sudden, if you're building a marketing budget, if we spend X, look, I can show you we're gonna generate Y. Yeah. And that's a very compelling argument to make. Lou and I were both in congressional seats. Anytime people come in and ask you for money, you wanna say, well, what's the return? And the good lobbyists, they they have an answer to that.

I think good marketers are the same way. Yeah.

Brian Jewell (23:41.902)
Yeah, absolutely. What are those conversations? How are they different at the local and state level than the federal level? and and w how are the outcomes maybe different or more, you know, specific or more relevant?

Fred Ferguson (23:55.798)
I think I think the the the thing that makes lobbying and advocacy and influence easier at the federal level, everyone's in the same place. You're all in the same six buildings. So getting to the decision makers, it's it's not that hard once you know kind of how that those buildings work and how to get into the right office. When you're talking about, you know, counties and DMOs, there's over 2,000 counties in the country. And so

You know, getting to each of them just more challenging. But usually once you develop relationships locally, you have more immediate impact. You can get stuff done sooner because the number of final decision makers, you may have seven on a county council, you have 435 members of the house. Yeah. So once you find the the the decision makers, it's easier to influence. But it's just takes a lot more time to get in with.

So what we want to do, we want to teach our DMOs the best way to understand the data and then to use that data in your local conversations.

Brian Jewell (25:01.854)
So as we look forward, you know, you said you want this to be an annual project. what are you hoping to see in, you know, a a 27 release, a 28 release? And how do you hope the industry will use this data the more they learn to leverage it?

Fred Ferguson (25:18.83)
Well, I mean, I think I think growth, I think we always want to see these numbers go up. you know, from twenty so we're we're measuring calendar year twenty-five. You know, that's what we're looking at. So from calendar twenty-four to twenty-five, we saw a lot of growth in the numbers. you know, Lou mentioned kind of the underpinning of of the positive numbers. There were nine percent more motor coach miles driven in twenty twenty five than twenty twenty four.

So we saw a lot more miles. We saw a lot more motor coaches. There was four percent more motor coaches on the road in 2025 than 2024. Now, the interesting statistic, there were few percent fewer companies. So the number of bus companies got smaller while the fleet size grew. So what that's telling you is there's consolidation that's happening. Smaller companies, or maybe companies that financially aren't as strong are going out of business.

And the more stable companies are coming in, you know, to buy up that capacity. So I think that's just a trend worth following and paying attention to. I think, you know, for your followers and listeners, the motor coach industry is going through a lot of many crises at once. the number of insurers in the motor coach industry is going down.

It's getting very expensive to insure motor coaches. And and many of our operators are seeing, you know, double-digit, sometimes triple digit increases in their premiums for having a safety record that really was unchanged year over year. And a lot of that is driven by less competition, very aggressive plaintiffs' attorneys who see a motor coach as a very lucrative target in the judicial system. You know, we're seeing in New York City.

It's costing motor coach companies an extra fifty thousand dollars a year to service New York City because of the city's idling enforcement program, which empowers citizens to issue citations to motor coach companies for maintaining a safe cabin temperature, running the wheelchair lift, or keeping the motor coach on for any longer than three minutes, regardless of what the temperature is outside.

Fred Ferguson (27:42.348)
Fuel prices are most definitely affecting the motor coach industry. So this affordability crisis is having an impact, you know, and it's something we all have to be mindful of. So the tour operator who books a bus should be aware of that. You know, the the attractions who are recruiting the tour operator who are recruiting the buses, they need to be aware of that. And the more we all can understand the pain points we're going through, the more we can work together to

To determine how do we give on price, how do we, you know, figure out a way to lift each other up because it's all connected. And as it gets more expensive to operate buses, you know, we don't want to see a negative downstream effect. But that's what I'm gonna be paying attention to. At some point, do we start to go backwards with these numbers? And I certainly hope that's not the case, but that's that is a big threat that we're following.

Brian Jewell (28:34.892)
Yeah, it's all critical. Lou, anything to add?

Lew Meyers (28:38.454)
I think Fred nailed it on the head. You know, at the foundation, we are heavily invested in providing data, not only for our members and policymakers, but it really helps sharpen our advocacy knives as we continue to you know, create legislation and regulation that supports our industry. there are a number of headwinds that we are facing as an industry right now. But when you look at the connective tissue that Motor Coach brings to the nation, whether it's

moving men and women of service, whether it is natural disaster evacuation, we play a critical role as an industry. And so we just wanna have a level and fair playing field and that's what we're doing at ABA every day, continuing to support and advocate for the needs of our industry.

Brian Jewell (29:23.256)
Yeah, that's awesome. So guys, this data is out. where is the best place for people to find the data and learn more about ABA and learn more about marketplace next year?

Fred Ferguson (29:36.376)
So our website, buses.org, that is you know, not to go on a tangent, but we just completely overhaul the website. it's a cleaner website, fewer clicks, the the data is organized. You said this is a wonky group, but we went from 19 decisions from the from the home page down to I wanna say eight. Wow. So it's a much simpler website to navigate. the foundation, the ABA foundation makes the research possible.

So just click on the foundation right from our main navigation and you'll enter the foundation page that's filled with resources, you know, the economic data we've discussed, the interactive map that is will be published as part of this larger event we're doing in September. And that'll have all the information you need to get involved, to read the data, to sign up for marketplace, just start at buses.org.

Brian Jewell (30:29.614)
Well, before I let you all go, we have some questions we ask everyone who comes on the show and they're just for fun. Lou, you answered these questions a year ago. So I'm gonna put Fred in the hot seat this time. so Fred, off the top of your head, when you book travel, are you booking a window seat or an aisle seat? Yeah. what's your reasoning there?

Fred Ferguson (30:48.768)
Usually I have two kids with me, and that's the easiest way to keep them from running up and down the aisle.

Brian Jewell (30:54.094)
You gotta block the aisle so they can't get to it, right? Love it. so what's something in your carry-on that you wouldn't travel without?

Fred Ferguson (30:57.262)
Exactly.

Fred Ferguson (31:03.182)
hairspray.

Fred Ferguson (31:09.39)
This hair doesn't this hair doesn't make itself.

Brian Jewell (31:13.858)
It gotta look good for the public, right? nice. So if you had a free airline pass in a week with nothing else to do, where would you go?

Fred Ferguson (31:25.992)
W I would go to my hometown, Park City, Utah. And I would go in the summer, not the winter. The summer you get hiking, biking, fly fishing, golf, seven 70 degree weather during the day, probably 55 degree weather at night, you know, perfect for a quarter zip, and no bugs, no humidity, and it's it's home. So I'd I'd go to Park City.

Brian Jewell (31:51.874)
Yeah, that sounds amazing, especially now as we talk in, you know, 95 degree heat wave. So I totally hear that. last question, Fred. what is one thing you have seen or done on the road that you wish you could go back and experience again with somebody you love?

Fred Ferguson (32:07.81)
I thought you were gonna say something I regretted.

Brian Jewell (32:10.824)
You can share that if you want.

Fred Ferguson (32:13.272)
So my and this was like a good motor coach story. My my best motor coach memories are from playing college baseball. You know, so much of our road trips were done on motor coaches. And on one road trip, a bunch of us took our meal money, which, you know, you get meal money. Back then it was cash. And we went to a tattoo parlor and we all got tattoos. And then the rest of the week, like we had no meal money. But that that one still costing me because now my kids are like, what the heck is that thing on your back? So

That was that was the biggest thing I regret. what was the other qu what was the real question?

Brian Jewell (32:47.446)
So something you've seen or done on the road that you wish you could experience again with somebody you love?

Fred Ferguson (32:52.97)
I think I've I got to be part of the 2002 Winter Olympics. wow again in in Utah. That experience of being part of the Olympics was unbelievable. My parents had retail shops and so there was just bananas. but knowing that the LA Olympics are coming up, the Salt Lake City, they're gonna get the Olympics again, I just think that is that is must, must see TV.

And to be there in person and to be part of that, like you gotta do it. And I can't wait to go back.

Brian Jewell (33:26.594)
Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Lou, any tattoos we should know about?

Lew Meyers (33:31.983)
just a couple fraternity tattoos back in college, but none none of none of recent discussions, so

Fred Ferguson (33:35.554)
There he goes.

Brian Jewell (33:41.696)
it's amazing how many tattoo stories start back in college, right? That's how it goes. Yep. Well, guys, this has been great. I am gonna see you too at ABA in Calgary. I know many of our listeners are gonna be there as well, but thank you for joining us and thanks for all you do to help move our industry forward.

Fred Ferguson (33:59.904)
Thanks for the time.

Lew Meyers (34:01.326)
Thanks, Brian.

Brian Jewell (34:09.358)
Well, I sure hope you enjoyed that conversation with Fred and Lou as much as I did. And more than that, I hope you will go and download the economic impact report, take a look at it, dive into the numbers, see how your destination is doing. These are the kinds of numbers and data that can help all of us move our industry forward together. And it is so important that we all play a part in that.

As the tourism industry grapples with all of the challenges and opportunities we have in front of us. So big thanks to Fred and Lou for joining me today and sharing this important info. Next week, as promised, we'll be back with our regularly scheduled episode. This is an interview with Ali Raymer about how she is planning Pied Piper group trips. It's a really interesting and fun concept. You won't want to miss that for sure.

Until then though, remember this. At the end of the day, we are all on this trip together. So let's make it a good one. See you next time on Gather and Go.

Brian Jewell (35:24.194)
Gather and Go is hosted and executive produced by me, Brian Schule. Our publisher is Mac Lacey. Our creative team includes Dania Simmons, Ashley Ricks, and Rachel Crick. Our sales team is Talesa Reck and Ashley DiLuccia. To advertise on the podcast, call Talesa at 859-253-0455. Gather and Go is a production of the Group Travel Leader. For more information on our podcast, magazines, and events, visit us online at GroupTravelleader.com.