Brian Jewell (00:00.664)
Are you looking for a wild addition to your next Atlanta adventure? I want to take a minute to tell you about Zoo Atlanta, just minutes from downtown and home to hundreds of incredible animals representing more than 200 species. Get up close to one of the largest groups of gorillas in North America. Then see if you can spot one of the world's tiniest frogs, the colorful Panamanian golden frog, inside the scaly, slimy, spectacular amphibian and reptile experience.

Spend your day exploring forty acres of amazing habitats featuring African elephants, Sumatran tigers, red panda, orangutans, southern white rhinos, and more. No day is complete without a spin on the endangered species carousel and a ride aboard the Norfolk Southern Zoo train. Zoo Atlanta offers groups of fifteen or more special discounted admission, making it an easy and unforgettable addition to your Atlanta itinerary.

Visit zooatlanta.org slash groups to start planning your wild adventure today.

Brian Jewell (01:11.822)
Well, hey there, everybody. Welcome to Gather and Go, the podcast that helps you plan, promote, and lead better trips. I'm Brian Jewell. I am your host. I am feeling energized today, and hope you are as well. And of course, as always, my promise to you is that I'm going to do everything I can today to make this investment of your time worth your while.

Now, today I have a really cool featured interview with Allie Raymer of Peace and Pearl Travel Company. Ali's going to tell us all about how she has learned to partner with community leaders to build what she calls Pied Piper Group Trips. And in this conversation, you're going to hear how you can do the same, how you can set expectations with your group leader partners to ensure success, and how you can help them.

Pick the right destinations and experiences to make sure their trips are a home run for them and their customers and for you. It's a really cool conversation. I can't wait for you to hear it. Before we get there, though, let's start with some travel news you may have missed. A new Arctic cruising company is launching a zero emissions ship.

An expedition cruising startup called Celar has announced it will sail a new ship called the Captain Arctic, starting in February 2027. The ship is equipped with five aluminum sails and will run mostly off of wind, solar, and battery power, with additional biofuel electric engines for times when weather isn't amenable to renewable power sources. Founder Sophie Galvignon told Travel Weekly that her goal is to run the ship as

Close to zero emissions as possible, saying, quote, it's going to depend on the weather, but altogether, we have 90% less emissions than conventional ships. The ship is set to accommodate 36 passengers and is focused on cultivating unexpected experiences. Cruise departures will have no set itineraries, allowing the crew to sail at will to interesting destinations.

Brian Jewell (03:26.894)
Galvignon also said activities and dining programs would be tailored to guests' individual interests. Solar will run English-speaking and French-speaking cruises through the Arctic, starting with Norway and Greenland in 2027, and said that his inventory for the year is already about 75% booked.

Well, now before we move on, I want to take just a minute and share a little bit of news from us. We just released one of the most helpful and useful resources we put out on a yearly basis. This is the buyer's guide for the group travel industry. And it really should be required reading for anybody who works in group travel, whether on the trip planning side or the trip promotion side.

This is a special section of the September issue of the Group Travel Leader magazine. And in this year's buyer's guide, you're gonna find interviews with the leaders of America's top travel associations where we really dig in deep about some of the opportunities and some of the challenges facing our industry. We also have a great guide to succession planning for your travel business and a roundup.

Of some really cool behind the scenes experiences that could take your group trips to the next level. There's also a great article about how you and your groups can experience international flair without leaving the United States. Now, all of this and more is available in the buyer's guide, and it is absolutely free. That's right. You can get it right now at grouptraveleader.com/slash.

Buyer's Guide. I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well to make it easy for you to click on. Just go to that site. The articles are all right there. We don't even ask you to give us your email address. It is super helpful information. And I think if you check it out, you will be glad you did. So don't miss this year's buyer's guide for the group travel industry at grouptravel leader.com slash buyer's guide.

Brian Jewell (05:39.394)
Well, now it is just about time for us to move into our featured conversation with Allie Raymer. As we do that, let me remind you that you can find a wrap-up of some of the most important things Allie had to say in the show notes for this episode. And in fact, you can find show notes for the 110 or so episodes we have done, all on our site at group travel leader.com slash podcast. And after we finish the interview with Allie, I'm also going to come back and

Do a wrap up of some of the most interesting and insightful things she had to say to make sure you don't miss them. And I hope you will stick with me through the end of that wrap up because once we're done there, we're gonna take a minute and answer the question What are you really selling when you sell travel? That's gonna be the topic of today's hot minute. You won't want to miss that. We'll be right back with Allie Raymer.

Brian Jewell (06:45.162)
Everybody, my guest today is a former high school English teacher who found her passion for travel after taking her students on trips throughout Europe and Central America. Today she's the founder and lead travel advisor at Peace and Pearl Travel Company, where she builds personalized trips for Pied Piper travel groups. Allie Raymer, welcome to the podcast.

Ali Raymer (07:06.754)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to chat with you today.

Brian Jewell (07:10.784)
I'm so excited to have you here. I always love talking to people who have discovered group travel and discovered w what a beautiful experience it is, what a enriching experience it is, because so many people honestly don't know about it. Or maybe they think of like the student, you know, group element, which you did for a long time. I did, yeah. so you know, the the fact that you you kind of found it and have made it a a huge part of your practice in travel is really exciting to me. And I wanna

dig into a lot of that. First, give us the the super quick version of how you went from teacher to travel advisor.

Ali Raymer (07:42.904)
Yeah, for sure. So I was a high school English teacher, as you said. And I was working at a Title One school down in southern Kentucky. And we're doing lots of fundraising and selling lots of trips though. and it was so much fun. And my husband's aunt, she actually owned her own travel agency, picture this travel. And she said, you know, Allie, you're selling travel to people with no money. You know, you're having to fundraise every bit of it.

And she said, but you could sell travel to people with money. And I was like, duh, like that's what you do. And it just so happened that she, her specialty was group travel. And she kind of saw what I was doing with high school students and brought me along. And yeah, I joined her agency. And then nine years later, here I am through all the ups and downs of COVID craziness, having two babies, all the things. And now I have my own agency.

Peace and pearl, as you said. And yeah, that's kind of the short of it. There's lots of drama in the middle, which I'm sure we might get into some of that. But yeah, it's been a fun ride. So

Brian Jewell (08:45.506)
That that is a a wonderful ride. now you specialize in part in what you describe as Pied Piper trips. it's a fascinating concept. It's a concept I don't think enough of our listeners are either aware of or really engaged in. So when you say Pied Piper trip, unpack that for us. Tell us what it means and how it's different than just, you know, putting a trip together, putting a bunch of people on it and operating it yourself.

Ali Raymer (09:11.672)
Yeah, absolutely. So for us, you know, I started the Pied Piper trips with Sherry as my mentor. And she was doing it through different avenues, one of which was pastors, local pastors, and going on you know, trips to Greece or Israel, you know, the Holy Land, things like that. And I saw what she was doing and she was mentoring me in that way. And I thought, okay, what other avenues can we go down with this? You know, we have this person of influence, someone that

has a group and that, you know, maybe they don't preach to them every day on Sunday, but in a some capacity they do. And maybe we can you know, partner together and I can leverage their audience to create this group opportunity. So I kind of started thinking and brainstorming about people who have a good following or sphere of influence. And it was actually during the COVID years when we were all spending probably too much time on social media. And I had

made some friends with other entrepreneurial moms on there and just started building relationships with them really is where it started. And from there I just kind of started to get creative and thought, you know, they have audiences that, especially post-COVID, probably would really like to travel with this person and really enjoy this person. Let's just go for it. And that's that's kind of where it began. I started with Kayla Weber Nord. she's an artist in Kentucky.

I started with a friend of mine, Bree Gallher. She's a pastry chef in Kentucky. And I thought these are people with niches, you know, with specialties, with audiences and influence. They're really likable women. I enjoyed spending time with them and I thought, you know, I think other people will too.

Brian Jewell (10:56.706)
Yeah. So give us a an idea of some of the different kinds of people that could be a Pied Piper. You mentioned a pastor. in a way you were a Pied Piper as a teacher. A lot of people would never have said, pastry chef, that's got potential. So is it just like the entire world is your oyster or are there categories you look for to say, this this is the right kind of person?

Ali Raymer (11:07.564)
It was, yeah.

Ali Raymer (11:21.224)
Think it's important to find someone, one that's very likable and does have that sphere of influence. You know, not everybody has to have thousands and thousands of followers on Instagram per se, but that is kind of helpful, we'll say. and it is kind of helpful too to think about something that's a little bit niche, like maybe they have something that is their niche thing that they have this audience for, and that they can kind of be the expert and teach. So the trip becomes.

not just, you know, a trip to Tuscany, but it becomes a trip to Tuscany where I get to paint watercolor. And maybe I'm a novice painter or maybe I'm actually really good. And I've always just wanted to sit down with Kayla and, you know, pick her brain. So I think that was a big part of it. right now we actually just this week launched another Pied Piper trip with some whiskey Somaliers. and so

And whiskey educators. So same kind of idea. Like these people are experts and they have this realm of influence. And it just enriches the whole travel experience when you have this expert going on the trip.

Brian Jewell (12:25.516)
You know, what strikes me is that I don't hear you saying, I just look for people with big Instagram followings. No. You know, I I I just find influencers, you know, in influencers bring their own tribe. That is a thing in travel. I'm not knocking that people people do that. But why why are you focusing more on almost like the community based entrepreneur versus someone who's got, you know, 10,000 or 50,000 Instagram followers?

Ali Raymer (12:32.046)
No, definitely not.

Ali Raymer (12:53.902)
Okay, I'm gonna say this and it might be a little harsh, but sometimes we're following people because they're kind of a train wreck. But I mean, let's just be honest. Just because you're following someone doesn't mean that, I mean, you might use their link to order something on Amazon, but that doesn't mean that you genuinely want to spend time with that person. because when you're traveling with someone, I mean, that's very intimate experience. Let's be honest. You're sitting across the table with them. You're

You know, if you're in the middle of summer sweating on a, you know, river cruise ship or something, I don't know, you're doing s these very monumental experiences with these people. So just because someone has a huge following doesn't mean that people necessarily want to genuinely spend intimate time with them. And I think that the Pied Pipers, yeah, I really look for people that are not influencers, but more they are they have a sphere of influence. I think that's very different.

I think, you know, when I'm looking for these people, I had talked to you about Weida Michael. you know, on social media, like if you were to look her up, she doesn't have like hundreds of thousands of followers. And I kind of think that she would, and she doesn't. but she has a huge sphere of influence in Kentucky, beyond Kentucky. I mean, it kind of blows me away how many people she has a sphere of influence over. And people have already committed.

funds, right? Like they've already signed up for a cooking class. They've purchased a painting. They've they've committed in some way financially to this Pied Piper beyond just clicking on some, like I said, kind of referral link, you know, to get something for yourself. They've really poured into this Pied Piper financially in some way and shown their support toward them.

Brian Jewell (14:41.868)
That's a really good point. It it seems like you're saying these Pied Pipers already have a transaction history with their clients. And because those transactions have been great experiences, the clients have a high level of trust. Glee. And you don't have that with somebody you follow on Instagram.

Ali Raymer (14:54.477)
Exactly.

Ali Raymer (14:58.156)
No, you definitely don't. I mean, probably not. Like last time, you know, the influencer got me to buy some jeans on Amazon, but I don't have a relationship with her, so

Brian Jewell (15:07.906)
Yeah. Yeah. So there must be some kind of metric though that you're looking at. You know, followers may not work, but is it an email list? Is it a number of, you know, storefront locations? Is it a transaction history? How how do you kind of do the math of saying this person is worth me spending some time recruiting?

Ali Raymer (15:26.55)
Yeah, for sure. so I definitely think the email marketing list is huge and looking into the data metrics of that. So like what's their open rate, what's their conversion rate? looking at other things that they've launched. So I'm kind of going back to Wita and Kayla here, but like, you know, Wita launches cooking classes every so often, and how quickly are those selling out? You know, how quickly are people jumping on that email marketing list? Kayla, I know often does launches.

and she opens it up to like a VIP list and things some of her art will sell out on the VIP list before it ever gets launched publicly. So little things like that that do kind of give you some data metrics of like, okay, people are not just following you and not just a fan of you, but they are like hungry for you to put something out and they're gonna jump on it and put their dollars towards it. I think that's really huge. And also if it's if it's not.

this like really deep transactional history or or large email marketing list. If they have a very strong community, the pastry chef here in Bowling Green, I felt like she just had a really strong community of people around her. She did have a storefront. She did a lot of things in her community where she put herself out there. And she's just a really genuine, authentic person. So she had already built these really genuine relationships with people. She wasn't just selling pies to people.

She really felt like she was a part of their family. So, I think that matters too, and that's harder to judge. You know, you can't say what's your what's your community score. but I think it's important.

Brian Jewell (17:02.444)
Yeah, absolutely. So walk me through the conversations you're having with these people. First of all, how does it start? Are the are they finding you? Are you finding them? And then when that initial conversation happens, what are their questions? What are their concerns? What are you trying to find out about them?

Ali Raymer (17:19.744)
Yeah. So I would say there have been some people that have approached me because they've seen what I've done with other Pied Pipers. And I will say most of those have not panned out. because I started digging into some of those questions we just talked about and they didn't have many answers. they felt like maybe their audience needed to grow a little more. so yeah, most of the successful ones I've actually reached out to them. I just said, hey, let's go out for coffee, let's sit down, let's have a

Just a real conversation. I've already developed relationships for the most part with most of those women beforehand. and some of them had done trips like this in the past on their own, which is amazing to me because yes, they're entrepreneurs and they're hustlers, but to plan travel on their own, that's really impressive. and so I really sat down with them and said, What were your pain points? Like,

What gave you anxiety in doing this? You know? And I just made a list of all of those pain points, just sitting down over coffee and and listening to what the struggles were before. Or maybe if a Pied Piper hadn't done a trip like that, what was keeping them from doing it? What potential anxieties? And again, just sitting down with them and making that list. And then once I've fully listened to their side, then being able to go through literally each and every point and go, okay.

Here's where this is gonna be solved. This you're not gonna have to worry about, you know. and you don't have to become a travel advisor. That's my role. You're just here to to market to your audience and to build that community in a new and different way.

Brian Jewell (18:52.788)
I I would imagine that a lot of their pain points or their uncertainties or fears are things that those of us in the trade face every day. You already have the solutions, you already have the partnerships, you are, you know. So the reason it's painful for them is they're not in travel.

Ali Raymer (19:07.416)
Yeah. exactly. They're experts in, you know, col their culinary field or in their artistry field. And that's great. I'm so glad that they are good at that. But yeah, we're like, that's easy. We got it. We know how to do transfers when everybody shows up at different times. That's no big deal, you know? We're used to that. So yeah, most of their pain points are things that we're all all used to solving every day. So no worries there.

Brian Jewell (19:31.682)
Yeah, absolutely. So what are these Pied pipers wanting to get out of the trips? And I imagine it's a variety of things. It it might be I just want to connect with my audience. I just want to build deeper relationships. It might be, I'm trying to make some cash on this. or it might just be like, you know, brand, it might be I I've always wanted to go to Tuscany and this is a way to do it. So what are they telling you they want and how are you helping them achieve those goals?

Ali Raymer (19:59.02)
Yeah, it it definitely is a wide variety of answers, I will say. I have everything from, my gosh, you know, we're approaching them and they say, my gosh, I get to go on this trip and I don't have to pay anything, and their minds are blown. you know, the whiskey smaller and the whiskey educator, they were just blown. Their minds are blown that we're we are allowed to do that, you know? Yeah. and so you have something like that, which is really sweet because they've just never understood group travel before.

And then you have some others that maybe think, okay, I'm taking time away from a really successful business that I'm running here at home. And that time away is going to cost me money. And so I'm gonna need to compensate myself. So I've I've seen the wide variety, and I think all shapes and sizes are great. it's just a matter of having that upfront conversation from the beginning of as a Pied Piper, what do you expect? And

And then we that's where we have to work the magic on the back end with our suppliers or in our pricing, you know, schemes and things like that of making it work. but yeah, I I've seen the gambit. And I think people again who come to me with like a cash grab scenario in their hand, I don't think that they're the right fit. I think it really is more about I wanna build these relationships, I wanna build my brand. You know, we to whenever I went to her,

She said, I had always wanted to go to France. I was just waiting for someone to ask me. And I thought, my gosh, I cannot believe I shot shot my shot and it worked on her. You know, it's just amazing that sometimes people are just wanting to be asked. And that she, you know, she just didn't have the time to think through all of that. She's a busy lady. And and I'm coming to her with this kind of solution. And for her, I would say it was really about her brand, you know. I mean, she.

That's her brand. That's who she is. And and she wants to connect with the people who who love her restaurants and her recipes. And she wanted to connect with them on a deeper, more intimate level by traveling with them. So yeah, I'd say for the most part, it's brand and and content. I think if they're looking for the financials first and foremost, that might even be a red flag, honestly.

Brian Jewell (22:16.63)
Say more about that. Is it a red flag because it reveals something about their motivations, or because maybe they just don't understand the economics of tourism or or

Ali Raymer (22:24.142)
I think that's what it is. I don't think they understand the economics of it. I I've had a woman come to me and she's been doing like she wants to do the Camino in Spain and she's done it before. And she was like, Now I expect to make X amount of dollars, you know, right out the bat. That was her first comment to me. And I thought, okay, noted. I'm writing it down, you know, that's interesting. And then I said, Okay, well, what's your email marketing list look like? Let's just start there. And she's like, Well, I don't that many. And I'm like, well

we got a problem. So like I think it just needs to match. Like I think the expectations just need to match what they're bringing to the table. Because if they don't bring the audience to the table, they're not helping me. Let's be honest, you know?

Brian Jewell (23:06.358)
Yeah. Is it more pleasant to work with those people who say this just sounds like fun or I just want to connect with my audience?

Ali Raymer (23:16.042)
No, I think it's the same. I mean, I I really I see it both ways. I mean, people who've said hey, I'd really want to make X amount of dollars, it's been a good motivating factor for both of us to sell. So I don't see it it really as any different. And I kind of like to tier it. You know, I I'm a competitive person. So I'm like, all right, well, if you sell X amount of spots, we'll give you this or we'll do a bonus commission. Or I I kind of entice them in that way. I think that makes it a little bit more enjoyable too. So

Brian Jewell (23:45.016)
So yeah, let's talk about how you're building all this once the business comes to you. So there are variety of ways to do it. If you had expertise in an area and all the suppliers, you could go put it together hotel by hotel and and restaurant by restaurant and and all that. There's also DMCs, there's tour companies. So how do you deliver product in a way that doesn't take all your time to put it together?

Ali Raymer (24:09.614)
Right. Gosh. Okay. Starting out, I will say I did rely on the group tour companies that felt like I was taking less of a risk, less of a time investment. And so I could learn. I mean, I was young in the business when I first started doing this. And, you know, so I did go to the collettes and and the premieres and say, Hey, let's partner together. You guys are already experts in this.

You know, I've got this Pied Piper and I'm kind of just the connecting part that's making it work. So I think starting with those was really key for me because I learned a ton by doing that. Or, you know, partnering with river cruises, that's like such a good one too, because they don't really have like this pressure on you to sell. I mean, you're not gonna like get to save spots or anything unless you're chartering a ship. But like, you know, starting with something that's a little bit more low stakes or low risk.

And then moving into, okay, now let me work with something that's a little bit more custom, like a DMC. and then I think you build those DMC relationships and they just kind of evolve then. you know, and yeah, you build your own kind of repertoire of your your Rolodex, you know, and who you love. And and sometimes the DMCs will incorporate those those things in those people. So I would say it's just dependent upon the Pied Piper and what they're looking for. I really just try to choose the correct.

supplier to match up with it that makes the most sense. it's not always just like one size fits all.

Brian Jewell (25:40.886)
Yeah. So in terms of what they are looking for, it it seems to me that somebody could be looking for, I want this to be branded with my brand. You know, if I if I were the Pied Piper, I want it to be, you know, explore Mexico with Brian Jewel. Right. Or, you know, that's one end of the spectrum. The other end could be like, I don't care whose name you put on it, I don't care what brand they see, as long as people know they're traveling with me and we could have fun together, it it's all good. So how does that work out in these scenarios?

Ali Raymer (26:08.278)
Yeah, we do decide from the beginning from like a marketing standpoint, okay, who's taking on what. You know, some brands they have marketing teams. Other people are like a one-man show, you know? and so they're relying on us to provide more of the marketing. And it's really just teamwork. I mean, at the end of the day, logistically, I have to be able to get people to register and collect their payment information. So, like I need to be in charge of all of that.

at some level. But of course, I am so open. I'm very much about marketing and branding myself. And I would never want someone to feel like something didn't feel authentically them. So anytime that they feel like they want to take the lead on the marketing and the branding side of things to make sure it really does feel authentically them, I'm a hundred percent in support of that. And if they aren't, if they're like, I'm too busy, please help, then

You know, I'm like, all right, send some logos, we'll figure it out, you know, we'll we'll throw this site together. So, but yeah, I think it's really just outlining all of that from the very beginning and and really listening to what the Pied Piper wants. Because at the end of the day, they're everything. I mean, if you don't have them, you don't have trip, and I'm there to support them. I'm more of kind of a background figure.

Brian Jewell (27:28.792)
But at some point in the transaction chain that end user is going to encounter the Peace and Pearl brand, right? Like they're they're gonna submit payment on your website or something like that.

Ali Raymer (27:37.676)
For sure. And I definitely feel very strongly that I want to build those relationships with the clients as well, you know? And I let the Pied Piper know that it's not like they're you know, traveling with just the brand. They're traveling with me, like I'm supporting that. And I want them to know that I want them to know that I'm an expert in the travel side of things. and from that, I've in turn gotten plenty of these clients who've gone on group tours so they can come back to me for FIT travel.

And I've built relationships with them and they've gone on trips year after year, even if it wasn't with a group. So that's super important to me just as my personal brand is to build those relationships too.

Brian Jewell (28:18.03)
Yeah. Is there an ideal size for a f a Pied Piper trip? You in in the typical group tour space, you know, a lot of people say, well, I want to fill the bus because that, you know, you make more money that way or it's a more affordable trip. Right. then there's the whole, you know, small group movement, which has been growing, gaining steam. In these situations where a big part of the appeal is you're going with someone who's a notable person. What's the ideal number of people on that trip?

Ali Raymer (28:43.928)
Would say for mine, it has been a little bit smaller, kind of that mid to small. I would say anywhere from 12 to 24. I really don't like to go above that because if you're thinking about, especially the niches that I've been involved with, art and culinary mostly, you know, cooking classes can only accommodate so many people. So when we first launch Weida's trip.

you know, we had to talk to our DMCs and our partners in Provence and go, what are what's our max here? Cause we didn't could sell it out. Like, what are we gonna do? And we we decided pretty early, like this is gonna be 18 people, you know, we want this to feel really small and intimate. And logistically, that's what's gonna work. and then Kayla's trips were the same, you know, the art trip. She's having to teach people how to paint. Like you can't do a hundred people on that trip.

as much as that would be really fun, that would be super stressful for her. She's one person teaching people how to paint. Like that's that sounds really stressful to me. So we had to keep those pretty small and intimate. I think our whiskey smalier, we are gonna open up a little bit more. They're able to divide those tasting groups in half. And we can kind of do swapsies at different distilleries. Yeah. So that makes it a little bit easier to do a larger group and it's not so

One on one. And we also have two. We have an educator and a smalier. So when we divide the group, each group still gets an an expert.

Brian Jewell (30:13.614)
Yeah, that makes sense. You know, hearing those numbers, I'm just thinking back to the the economics of the situation. If a Pied Piper does come in, you know, let's say the ideal size is 15 for their group. And if Pied Piper is coming in and expecting to make 15,000 net on this trip, then all of a sudden you're trying to find a way to mark the trip up a thousand dollars a person. So I'm I'm wondering the clients, how willing are they to pay a premium to travel with this Pied Piper?

Or are they expecting the rates to be comparable to what they would get if they were doing the trip on their own?

Ali Raymer (30:48.62)
think that this is an education point, honestly. It's both an education point for the Pied Pipers and it's also an education point for the clients. you know, if a client comes to me on a Pied Piper and they want to talk more about price of this, et cetera, what they're getting for the value, and they're really just hung up on the price, I'm like, this trip isn't for you. Like, let me just go do an FIT version of this where you're not traveling with

A professional artist. I mean, let's keep it real. You don't value this person as much as you think that you do. And then the same goes for the Pied Pipers. Oftentimes, when we're talking, you know, we sit down and talk price with them as as much as we can, be very transparent about everything we do. And some of the Pied Pipers have come to us and been like, I don't know. I don't know if the audience is gonna pay this. And I'm like, you have to value yourself. Like you

You are value. You know, they're not just going on any trip to Ireland. They're going with you. And being there with you and tasting whiskey with you is a lot different than just going by themselves. So I think it is a balance and you have to understand your your target audience. You know, I mean, Weida's target audience is a little bit older, a more retired audience. They can you know, the price point can be a little bit higher for them, whereas Kayla's audience is a more millennial audience.

Audience, you know? And I think you have to look at that and consider that as well whenever you're planning out the DMCs and and and everything. You know, there's so many layers to it. the destination. I mean, the destination can be a huge driving factor. Some destinations are just more expensive than others. So that can be a big driving factor for sure.

Brian Jewell (32:32.354)
Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned destination. How do you pick the destinations for these? Do the Pied Pipers kind of have a place in mind? Do you have to guide them through it? A little bit of both?

Ali Raymer (32:42.51)
We definitely let them pick, but with some guidance, just like I would my clients. Like my clients come to me on an individual trip basis and they think they want, you know, Italy, and I end up convincing them Portugal because of what they're describing. and maybe the price point just works better too. So I think that we definitely want them to be passionate about it. We want it to be something they've always wanted to do, they've always wanted to sell, again, reinforcing their brand.

You know, they're gonna be gathering content. They might be taking even marketing people with them on the trip. So we want it to be something that feels very authentic to them. but we also need to make it to where it's marketable. So and we know that side of it. We know, like, that destination may not be as marketable. You're not gonna sell 40 people there, you know, or maybe not in this climate or something like that, you know. so I think we just have to partner together on that. But I for sure I want my my Pied Pipers to be passionate, number one.

Brian Jewell (33:40.258)
Yeah, absolutely. So speaking of marketing, when you do have that Pied Piper who's like, please help me with the marketing because I'm, you I'm a pastor chef, I'm not a marketer. Right. tell me what your strategy looks like. how are you getting in front of their audience and ultimately pushing them through that funnel to the buy now phase?

Ali Raymer (33:59.148)
Yeah, for sure. So we do set up on the back end. We have landing pages and things like that where we try to market to those typical pain points for what we would market, like our normal FIT travelers. And then we're partnering that with obviously the expertise of them. We're ta tapping into their email marketing list, their social media. We're kind of blasting that out together. and then sometimes we do in person events as well.

And that's really that community factor I talked about earlier. you know, if they've got that strong local community, I think that in-person event is great, you know, because then you're you're already kind of stirring up those feelings of all being together. and it's a little bit of that FOMO effect. That's actually something I learned when I was selling EF trips when I was a high school teacher.

was like do these in-person events and kind of make them fun and festive. And it kind of just gets people on board. So I think that that has been really successful as well. We've done some of those just to so people can put eyeballs on other potential travelers too and see, she's going well, I wanna go, you know, that it works really well. Like that in person FOMO works really well.

Brian Jewell (35:13.14)
Absolutely. I would imagine the longer you do this, you're gonna start seeing some repeat customers, not only clients, but but maybe even some trip leaders.

Ali Raymer (35:20.312)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. We so the pastry chef we did two separate trips with. and then Kayla, I don't know when this is gonna come out, but Kayla, we are in the process of doing Kayla's next trip. she kind of went some did some side inspections this summer in France. So we're about to launch that and I know we do's already

Yeah, she's already dreaming of her next destination. That's her that's actually her homework right now is supposed to be telling me what her next destination is. So yeah, they they definitely once you do it once, I mean, you know, like you you have you've done group travel. Once you do it, it just really does become addicting. And there's just something so magical about traveling with other people. So

Brian Jewell (36:05.72)
Yeah, absolutely. And and you know, if you can get it lined up enough in advance, there's something amazing on that last night of the trip about saying, Hey guys, next year I I'm gonna reveal to you where we're going next year. Next year it's Italy, you know, next year it's you know, Chile, whatever. And you know, I'm not saying that you can book them while they're still on that first trip. Maybe you can, but but you're already planting that seed while they're having the time of their life.

Ali Raymer (36:15.0)
Yep.

Ali Raymer (36:27.202)
Maybe that'd be awesome.

Ali Raymer (36:33.406)
yes, that's key. If you can get it while everybody's still, you know, on that, yeah, second glass of wine at dinner last night and everything winding down. Let's do it again. I think it's there is something powerful to that. And so many of my FIT clients, they I swear they text me on their vacations about their next vacation. So it's just a natural, natural human instinct, I think.

Brian Jewell (36:56.92)
Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. All right. Well, Allie, what is the best way for people to get in touch with you, learn about what you do, follow you online, give us all the all the handles.

Ali Raymer (37:06.306)
Yeah, absolutely. So I would say I am tried and true millennial Instagram. I really try to put my authentic self out there. So Ali, peace and Pearl Travel. that's just a great place. both yeah, advisors. I feel like I kind of share behind the scenes there as well, not just to my clients. you can find me on LinkedIn and then peaceandpearltravel.com is my website. And we have lots of group tours. My girls who all work for me at my agency, they're all, you know, drinking the

the group tour Kool Aid. So they've all been launching group tours. So we have some fun ones coming

Brian Jewell (37:40.866)
Yeah. So even if somebody's not necessarily a Pied Piper, but just wants help putting a group together, you're a you're a good resource.

Ali Raymer (37:47.657)
absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I'm very much an open book. So if you want to pick my brain, I would love to.

Brian Jewell (37:53.55)
Yeah, excellent. Well, before I let you go, we have some questions we ask everybody. These are just for fun. So you can answer off the top of your head. Okay. when you book travel, for you, do you book a window seat or an aisle seat?

Ali Raymer (38:04.494)
Okay, this was a test for me because I'm a mom and I recently had a book a trip just by myself because normally I let my kids pick and I end up with the middle seat. And so recently I had a book a trip that was just for me going across the pond. And I'm like, what am I? Am I an aisle or a window? I've kind of lost myself and I think I'm a window. I've decided. Yeah.

Brian Jewell (38:25.88)
For the view or for the headrest?

Ali Raymer (38:28.203)
really for the view, I'm a little I'm a little shaky. and I don't really love turbulence. I mean, who loves turbulence? Maybe weird people do. So I need to be able to see the ground.

Brian Jewell (38:39.598)
Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. All right. So what is something in your carry-on that you wouldn't travel without?

Ali Raymer (38:46.6)
Well, first of all, my carry-on. I literally only ever travel in a carry-on. Everything goes in a carry-on. It doesn't matter if I'm gone a month or a couple days. Well, a couple days I can fit it in a backpack, but yeah. but definitely my noise canceling headphones clear everything.

Brian Jewell (39:04.45)
Yeah. Okay. Well you told me you're an open book, so I'm gonna I'm gonna test you on that. I've talked to so many women who say I couldn't possibly only use a carry-on because shoes, makeup, product, you know, none of it fits in three ounces. You're you're a young person. you seem like you enjoy being well put together. So Yeah. Isn't it always? But like so so how do you

Ali Raymer (39:25.462)
That's all a friend.

Brian Jewell (39:30.018)
Make all that work, look professional w and w you know, when you show up where you're going and still keep it in a carry on.

Ali Raymer (39:36.142)
Okay, you do not need as much as you think as you do. Like you just don't. And wherever you're going, like they have stores. I mean, like I've always said that to myself. Like if I can't fit this in, like they have a CVS or something, you know, they have something where I can buy it. Even if I'm going international, probably. and then the shoes are really crucial. You honestly only need two pairs of shoes.

You need the like nice walking shoes, you know, either tennis shoes or a nice walking sandal. Or you need I'm gonna reveal my secret, but the croc wedges, ladies, if you're not doing a croc wedge, I've taken those croc wedges all over the world and they've served me well. That's it. That's all you need. The shoes is what gets people in trouble. So yeah, but I I took my two-year-old to Italy for a month in a carry-on.

And he was soaring diapers and we took diapers with us and we did it in a carry on.

Brian Jewell (40:33.899)
my gosh. Hats off to you. You it's super mom and super traveler. That's that's

Ali Raymer (40:37.686)
next level. I just hate having a bunch of stuff to be honest. I just want to keep it real minimal, minimal through. Yeah.

Brian Jewell (40:42.69)
Yeah, I hear ya. All right. So if you had a free airline pass and a week with nothing else to do, where would you go?

Ali Raymer (40:50.392)
man, that's good. Okay, I was gonna say New Zealand, but I actually just got a fam for New Zealand. awesome. I know. I'm pretty excited. So okay, that one's not on my list. Maybe, maybe Iceland, but in the summer, not in the winter. I wanna go in the summertime. So that's probably my next one.

Brian Jewell (41:07.502)
Yeah, awesome. New Zealand's gonna be fantastic. I did it like twenty something years ago. And it was right after Lord of the Rings came out. So you know, like they were taking us to all of those sites and it was yeah, it just just stunning.

Ali Raymer (41:19.566)
I'm so pumped. I was just telling my husband I'm dying to get there. And then no joke the next day I got a fam and I was like, let's go.

Brian Jewell (41:26.914)
Yeah. Long trip. There's no no way around that. No way around that's just a long flight, but it's totally worth it. Yeah. Yep. All right. Last question. What is one thing you have seen or done on the road that you wish you could go back and experience again with somebody you love?

Ali Raymer (41:40.458)
Gosh. I recently did I went to the UK. I did like Manchester and Wales and that whole area. And I had the most fabulous afternoon tea at this beautiful boutique hotel. And it was overlooking like this castle. Like we couldn't even go inside the castle because like the royal family was there. It was crazy. And and I was like,

I would have loved for my mom to been here. Like she would totally geek over this stuff. And we love doing tea together. We love she's like the girly version of me. And I'm I was just sitting at tea thinking, okay, my mom would love this. So yeah, that's I I'm all about give me a high tea just about anywhere. I'll be happy.

Brian Jewell (42:23.936)
Excellent. Well, Allie, thanks so much for joining us. This has been a real treat.

Ali Raymer (42:28.706)
Thank you so much for having me. I hope that someone's inspired and maybe goes and shoots their shot. You never know.

Brian Jewell (42:35.534)
Absolutely. Thank you.

Brian Jewell (42:43.438)
I sure hope you enjoyed that conversation with Allie as much as I did. It is always a thrill to meet young entrepreneurs in the tourism industry and to hear the innovative ways that they are doing business, planning trips, and building great travel enterprises. Now, I want to take a minute to recap some of the things that Ali said because I think they are really insightful and I want to make sure you don't miss them.

So when I asked Allie how she identifies Pied Pipers for group trips, she said, I really think it's important to find someone that's very likable and has that sphere of influence. She said, not everybody has to have thousands and thousands of followers on Instagram per se, but that is kind of helpful. And it is kind of helpful too to think about something that's a little bit niche. Like maybe they have something that is their niche thing that they have this audience for.

And that they can kind of be an expert and teach in. I love both parts of what Ali is saying here. Number one, influence is not a matter of numbers. Somebody with a large mailing list or a large following isn't necessarily somebody that people want to travel with. but who is a very popular kind of travel leader is someone who has a lot of influence among a smaller group of people.

And that kind of influence is developed around niche interests, small, tightly knit communities. Those are the kind of places where people are going to recognize the expertise of a Pied Piper. They're going to recognize that they trust that person, that they want to spend time with that person. And I think it's just so insightful to say, I'm not looking at people's social metrics. I'm not looking at their Instagram followers. I'm not super concerned about the size of their mailing list. What I'm concerned about is whether they have.

Deep expertise and trust among a small group of people who will be willing to travel with them. Now, when I talked to Ali about how she sets expectations with potential Pied Pipers, she said it's just a matter of having that upfront conversation from the beginning. What do you expect? And then that's where we have to work the magic on the back end with our suppliers or in our pricing. Schemes and things like that to make it work.

Brian Jewell (45:06.904)
But people who come to me with a cash grab scenario in their hand, I don't think that they're the right fit. Again, I think this is so insightful. There is a community of people out there, specifically some social media influencers, who have somehow discovered the message that it is possible to monetize their followings or their platforms through group trips. And while I'm always a fan of people traveling in groups, I think Ali is onto something here. People who

Are primarily looking for a payday in group travel, they're probably in it for the wrong reasons. They're probably going to be putting pressure on you as a seller that you really don't want to have to deal with. And frankly, they have a lower likelihood of success. honestly, unless they're some kind of major celebrity, the amount of premium they can extract from people for the privilege of traveling with them is probably lower than they think. So

there are all kinds of things that you can do to manage prices. There are things you can do to keep expenses low and perhaps to make sure that the people you're working with are compensated for their time, but they need to be coming at it with the right reasons. They want to share a travel experience with people they like. They want to build community among their followers. They want to do something that's going to be good for the people on the trip. That is a very different conversation than how much money will I make?

From getting people to hit the road with me. And finally, when I asked Allie how she helps trip leaders choose destinations, she said, we definitely want them to be passionate about it. We want it to be something they've always wanted to do, they've always wanted to sell. They're going to be gathering content. They might even be taking marketing people with them on the trip. So we want it to be something that feels very authentic to them, but we also need to make sure it's marketable. So we just have to partner together on that.

But for sure, I want my Pied Pipers to be passionate, number one. I think this is really insightful. And again, it may not always be that the most popular or the most profitable destination is the one that's right for your Pied Piper group. Ultimately, what's going to sell that trip is the passion of that group leader. And if they're not passionate about a place,

Brian Jewell (47:30.446)
It's gonna show up in the way they promote it, the way they talk about it. It's gonna show up in lackluster sales. So you may know that one certain kind of destination or experience is always a hit with people. And you need to communicate that in the exploration and discovery process. But ultimately, you need to let that person's passion guide you to planning a trip that they're gonna feel great about. And then that's where you bring in your expertise as a travel planner to take that destination they want to visit.

Figure out how to get the very best experiences possible there, and then deliver a travel product that they're going to love and that their customers are going to love. Great stuff there from Allie Raymer. So one thing Ali said that I've been thinking about ever since our interview was that sometimes you follow people online because it's kind of fun to watch the train wreck and not because they're people you actually admire or care about or whatever trust.

To lead a group trip. And I've been thinking about that in the context of what we do and the context of a world that tells us, you know, the bigger your social following is, the more influence you have. And that brings us to the topic of today's hot minute.

Yeah, that's right. The hot minute is the portion of the show where I take 60 seconds to give you my unfiltered thoughts on an issue that impacts tourism every day. And today we're asking the question, what are you really selling when you sell travel? So let's put 60 seconds on the clock and get into it.

You're not really in the travel business. You are in the trust business. There's a reason why many people with large followings make poor travel partners. As Ali said, just because you follow someone doesn't mean you trust them. And in travel, trust is the coin of the realm. The fact is there are only so many destinations in the world, but there are thousands of ways for people to book trips to them, especially in the age of AI.

Brian Jewell (49:48.184)
Your customers don't need you to plan their trips. This means the travel experience itself isn't your real product. What you're actually selling people is the confidence that they can trust you with their time, their money, their safety, and their travel dreams. AI can't do that. Influencers can't do that, but you can. And in the brave new world of travel,

Trust is still your greatest key to success.

Brian Jewell (50:21.72)
Well, that's it. That's the hot minute. That's how I see things anyway. Of course, as always, you are welcome to disagree with me, and we can still be friends. And hey, whether you agree or disagree, we would love to hear from you. You can send your thoughts, questions, or the influencer train wreck you can't look away from to podcast at grouptravelleader.com. I read every email that comes into that account. I really do love hearing from you.

And hey, you never know. Your ideas might just be the topic of the next hot minute. And while you're in the mood to give us some feedback, would you do me a big favor? Would you go to your favorite podcast playing app? And if you haven't already followed the show, then do it while you're there. And also while you're in there, if you could give us a rating or leave us a review, that would be a big help. I'm so thankful to everyone who has done that so far. My thanks as well to Allie Raymer for joining me today.

On the next episode, we're gonna have a conversation with Jeff Mint of the Mint Law Group. He's gonna tell you all about the travel laws you didn't know you might be breaking. You won't want to miss that. Until then though, remember this. At the end of the day, we are all on this trip together. So let's make it a good one. See you next time on Gather and Go.

Gather and Go is hosted and executive produced by me, Brian Schule. Our publisher is Mac Lacey. Our creative team includes Dania Simmons, Ashley Ricks, and Rachel Crick. Our sales team is Talesa Reck and Ashley DiLuccia. To advertise on the podcast, call Talesa at 859-253-0455. Gather and Go is a production of the Group Travel Leader. For more information on our podcast, magazines, and events, visit us online at grouptravelleader.com.